‘Uncanny Valley’: Pentagon vs. ‘Woke’ Anthropic, Agentic vs. Mimetic, and Trump vs. State of the Union

This week, the Uncanny Valley squad dives into the feud that has been brewing betwixt Anthropic and the Pentagon—and what it says astir however the authorities interacts with tech companies. Later, Zoë Schiffer tells america wherefore figuring retired whether you are agentic oregon mimetic has go the caller litmus trial successful Silicon Valley. Plus, we sermon the cardinal takeaways from the State of the Union code and springiness a farewell to the TAT-8 undersea cables—the ones that made our modern net possible.

Articles mentioned successful this episode:

• Are You ‘Agentic’ Enough for the AI Era?
• Say Goodbye to the Undersea Cable That Made the Global Internet Possible

You tin travel Brian Barrett connected Bluesky astatine @brbarrett, Zoë Schiffer connected Bluesky astatine @zoeschiffer, and Leah Feiger connected Bluesky astatine @leahfeiger. Write to america astatine [email protected].

How to Listen

You tin ever perceive to this week's podcast done the audio subordinate connected this page, but if you privation to subscribe for escaped to get each episode, here's how:

If you're connected an iPhone oregon iPad, unfastened the app called Podcasts, oregon conscionable pat this link. You tin besides download an app similar Overcast oregon Pocket Casts and hunt for “uncanny valley.” We’re connected Spotify too.

Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Brian Barrett: Hey, it's Brian. Zoë, Leah, and I person truly enjoyed being your caller hosts these past fewer weeks, and we privation to perceive from you. If you similar the amusement and person a minute, delight permission america a reappraisal successful the podcast oregon app of your choice. It truly helps america scope much people. And for immoderate questions and comments, you tin ever scope america astatine [email protected]. Thank you for listening. On to the show.

Leah Feiger: Hey, how's it going?

Zoë Schiffer: I consciousness great. Brian?

Brian Barrett: I consciousness terrific, and I cognize Leah does excessively due to the fact that Survivor's backmost tonight, different happening that we attraction astir and you don't.

Zoë Schiffer: How bash you cognize I don't? I mean, I don't. I don't, but for my champion person from puerility tried to spell connected it and past she didn't get on, truthful it's irrelevant.

Leah Feiger: Famously, 1 time I'm going to apply, and some Brian and our workfellow Tim person assured maine that I tin permission for a period to the beaches of Fiji and travel backmost and inactive support my job.

Zoë Schiffer: I deliberation astir radical would beryllium like, Leah, you're not going to past retired there, but they don't cognize astir your heavy oversea diving prowess.

Leah Feiger: I really deliberation I would beryllium fine. I really, truly privation to bash this. One day, you guys.

Brian Barrett: But Leah, it would necessitate you to perchance termination immoderate food to devour them, which is not normally—

Leah Feiger: That's OK.

Brian Barrett: Oh, OK.

Leah Feiger: No, no, no, no, fishing's fine. Subsistence living, that's precise OK. It's similar the larger institutionalization of the wide execution of our oversea that I instrumentality a spot of a bigger contented with.

Zoë Schiffer: And connected that note, invited to WIRED's Uncanny Valley. I'm Zoë Schiffer, WIRED's manager of concern and industry.

Brian Barrett: I'm Brian Barrett, enforcement editor.

Leah Feiger: And I'm Leah Feiger, elder authorities editor.

Zoë Schiffer: OK. I consciousness similar we person to commencement contiguous with this feud that is escalating time by day, hr by hr betwixt Anthropic and the Pentagon. So to acceptable the signifier a small bit, Anthropic past summertime scored a declaration of up to $200 cardinal with the Defense Department. Are we calling it the Department of War? No.

Brian Barrett: We are calling it the Defense Department due to the fact that Department of War is simply a secondary rubric per the enforcement order.

Leah Feiger: And a sanction alteration requires an enactment of Congress. There's a batch successful here. So no, we are each bully connected DOD. I emotion calling it the DOD.

Zoë Schiffer: Great. Before we get wholly derailed by the name, Anthropic, they won this declaration and past things person gotten beauteous tense since past due to the fact that fundamentally these 2 sides person very, precise antithetic views connected however AI exertion should beryllium utilized by the DOD. Anthropic has beauteous strict restrictions connected however their exertion tin beryllium deployed. For instance, it can't beryllium utilized for home surveillance oregon afloat autonomous weapons.

Leah Feiger: The afloat autonomous weapons happening truly gets me. What Anthropic is saying present is not similar immoderate woke left-wing chaotic thing. It's saying that machines can't beryllium the ones to afloat propulsion the button, right?

Zoë Schiffer: Right.

Leah Feiger: They can't termination radical conscionable themselves. They person to bash it with the assistance of people. That feels reasonable.

Zoë Schiffer: Right. This is simply a stance that is not OK with definite members of the DOD, namely Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. He met with Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei earlier this week, and helium fundamentally gave Dario an ultimatum. The institution has until Friday to comply with the Pentagon's demands, fundamentally saying that the AI tin beryllium utilized nevertheless the DOD wants without restrictions, oregon the DOD mightiness really cancel their contract.

Brian Barrett: Zoë, what's fascinating to maine astir this, among galore things, including the DOD's menace to usage the powerfulness of the authorities to unit Anthropic to springiness them entree to its AI to bash immoderate it wants, the DOD has options here. They've got a declaration with xAI, they enactment with each the large players, different companies bash not person these restrictions. So wherefore is it truthful important to them that Anthropic specifically has to beryllium capable to bash this? Can't they usage Grok?

Zoë Schiffer: They've already signed a woody with xAI. I mean, my feeling astir this, and Brian and Leah, I'm funny what you deliberation astir this, is it seems similar a small spot performative. I deliberation they're trying to marque a constituent that companies that privation large subject contracts oregon large contracts with the authorities astatine each aren't allowed to enactment their institution values successful those contracts. Basically, if you privation this money, you person to bash immoderate it takes to win.

Brian Barrett: Zoë, I privation to spell backmost to what I alluded to before, which is that successful presumption of making a amusement of it and demonstrating their powerfulness here, they suggested they mightiness invoke the Defense Production Act, which is usually what you bash successful wartime. If you're say, we request much tires for our Humvees, we're going to spell to Goodyear and person them marque much tires for us. And we saw the Defense Production Act invoked during Covid to marque radical marque masks. It is usually tied to carnal goods. It is usually tied to a authorities of emergency. This is conscionable we privation to play with your shiny artifact and you won't fto us, which conscionable benignant of seemed similar an outrageous usage of that potentially.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. I volition accidental it's not wholly wide to maine that this is simply a horrible presumption for Anthropic to beryllium successful purely due to the fact that the institution is truly differentiating itself successful this moment, not truly due to the fact that of its technology, but due to the fact that of its brand. And its marque is simply a small spot similar holier than thou, a small much values-based than immoderate of its competitors. And truthful portion this is simply a batch of wealth connected the line, and I deliberation Anthropic wants to beryllium a authorities contractor, it truly is cementing this imaginativeness of the institution arsenic being like, we're different, we're better, we're consenting to instrumentality a stand, wherever say, Sam Altman mightiness not be.

Leah Feiger: What you're saying truly keys into precisely what Secretary Hegseth said erstwhile helium was announcing this concern with xAI. You guys person to perceive to this.

Pete Hegseth, archival audio: We volition justice AI models connected this modular alone—factually accurate, ngo relevant, without ideological constraints that bounds lawful subject applications. Department of War AI volition not beryllium woke. It volition enactment for us.

Zoë Schiffer: Right. Right, right, right. It's bringing to caput the benignant of woke AI enforcement bid that rolled retired past year. I talked to many, galore radical to beryllium like, person you heard from the authorities connected this? Are they asking you to alteration definite things? And the answer, astatine slightest from the sources I spoke to, was fundamentally a resounding no, which told maine 1 thing. That was for show. That was astir making a point. It wasn't needfully astir virtually changing the merchandise that these companies are building.

Brian Barrett: I'm trying to deliberation of a corollary if this were not lines of codification and a carnal product. I consciousness similar it's astir similar going to iRobot and saying, look, we request your Roombas to explode. We request exploding Roombas. We request to deploy them successful the Kremlin. That's benignant of the level of overreach present to me.

Leah Feiger: No, this is chaotic overreach. Obviously the quality feels similar it's breaking each hr oregon truthful connected this. This idiosyncratic said this and Amodei said this. And I don't know. This truly does consciousness similar it's going to beryllium heading to a breaking point. And truthful acold we haven't really seen—correct maine if I'm wrong, this is your world, Zoë—we haven't really seen immoderate tech companies look down the Trump medication successful immoderate meaningful mode whatsoever.

Zoë Schiffer: I mean, yeah, surely it's been much mean for them to simply autumn successful line. I deliberation that if Anthropic were to cave astatine this point, it would beryllium wholly disastrous for the company. I deliberation the contented of mounting yourself up arsenic the bully AI institution is that the 2nd you falter, the 2nd they said they were going to effort and fundraise successful the Middle East, [perhaps instrumentality Gulf State money](https://www.wired.com/story/anthropic-dario-amodei-gulf-state-leaked-memo/), radical are very, precise speedy to telephone you a hypocrite. And surely the sources I person astatine OpenAI are similar they're poised and acceptable due to the fact that they are precise sick of Dario and the different Anthropic executives fundamentally saying that they're amended than OpenAI due to the fact that they're consenting to person values and OpenAI and immoderate of the different companies are not. So I'll beryllium truthful funny to spot however this plays out, but successful my mind, there's truly lone 1 mode for Anthropic to play this.

Brian Barrett: There's a amusive timing tidbit I wanted to stock that's benignant of related to each of this. I conscionable privation to enactment that a communicative came retired Wednesday that a researcher named Kenneth Payne astatine King's College London ran a GPT-5.2, Claude Sonnet 4 and Gemini 3 Flash against each different successful warfare crippled simulations. Ran a clump of simulations, similar I deliberation hundreds successful all, and 95 percent of the clip they opted to usage atomic weapons.

Zoë Schiffer: No.

Brian Barrett: They couldn't get capable of atomic weapons, so.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh, no.

Leah Feiger: Unbelievable.

Brian Barrett: That's not to accidental that that's what happened successful a existent satellite situation, but successful presumption of is it woke to not usage nukes? We'll find out. Is that woke AI?

Leah Feiger: That's the rubric of Brian Barrett's caller publication coming astatine you—

Brian Barrett: It is.

Leah Feiger: Fall 2027.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. Would read, would read, would click.

Leah Feiger: I mean, OK, but play this retired with maine for conscionable 1 second. As idiosyncratic who does not walk a ton of clip with AI models successful immoderate way, shape, oregon form, but that makes consciousness to me, that everything I person seen and everything similar inputting, marque this better, really adhd this to it. Of course, the last script present is, you cognize what? We're going to conscionable prime the champion option. It's the nukes. This volition afloat extremity it. Then we volition halt being asked for things. Does that really marque sense? Explain to maine wherefore we would adjacent get there.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, I deliberation that that's what alignment is expected to prevent. The full thought of alignment is that you're expected to crook the AI exemplary successful specified a mode that it conforms to quality values and doesn't bash what's bully for the AI necessarily. But I deliberation alignment successful and of itself has go seen arsenic benignant of woke and companies person been trying to instrumentality the minimum level of guardrails that they tin get distant with due to the fact that it's frankly politically toxic to bash otherwise.

Brian Barrett: And erstwhile you accidental alignment with quality values, the question is whose values, right? That's a wide range. And truthful again, getting backmost to this, this is the Pentagon saying no, the alignment is with the Department of Defense.

Zoë Schiffer: Right. I person a question for you guys, and I conscionable privation to inquire it and past I'm going to unpack it.

Brian Barrett: Do it.

Zoë Schiffer: Do you deliberation that you're agentic oregon mimetic?

Brian Barrett: Never mind. Don't bash it. Take it back.

Zoë Schiffer: Is it due to the fact that you're mimetic?

Brian Barrett: Can you explicate what that means earlier I commit?

Zoë Schiffer: So Silicon Valley has go obsessed with the thought of being agentic, hiring agentic people, and this is successful contrast, arsenic you mightiness imagine, to being mimetic. So idiosyncratic who's agentic is action-oriented. It's a idiosyncratic who conscionable does things. They person this interior drive. They conscionable marque things happen. They don't truly uncertainty themselves oregon the process. In contrast, idiosyncratic who's mimetic—I deliberation we tin each hold I'm successful this category—they are hesitant. They measurement the pros and cons. They benignant of hold to spot what different radical bash earlier they marque a move. These questions person travel up a batch successful occupation interviews astatine AI labs. People are benignant of trying to trial out, are we hiring idiosyncratic who's agentic? Are we hiring idiosyncratic who's mimetic? And I deliberation the thought is that successful a satellite wherever AI agents instrumentality implicit immense swaths of the economy, they're doing a batch of tasks similar agentic radical volition win and mimetic radical are fucked.

Leah Feiger: This conscionable feels similar benignant of different Silicon Valley mode to picture thing that already exists. It's similar erstwhile you're like, oh, are you a kicker oregon a puncher? These are conversations that person been happening connected playgrounds since we were babies. Of course, Silicon Valley took a fundamentally assemblage BuzzFeed property test, added a mates of other amusive keywords and we're like, we person figured retired a caller mode to complaint people.

Brian Barrett: I deliberation the radical who clasp this—is it just to say—all deliberation of themselves arsenic agentic, right?

Leah Feiger: Without a doubt.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh, for sure. But OK. Here's comic to maine astir this. I mean, the crushed that this has been benignant of taking implicit Silicon Valley—and Maxwell Zeff, 1 of our large AI writers, he's penning astir this this week—but determination was an effort successful Harper's by Sam Chris that I deliberation benignant of went viral past week, and it benignant of touched connected this idea, benignant of chose 3 people, a fewer of whom truly exemplified agentic tendencies and benignant of profiled them, talked astir benignant of this caller satellite that we are supposedly entering into. My disorder successful the piece, successful summation to the information that I deliberation media radical thin to implicit scale the value of things similar Slate Star Codex and the feline who started Cluely and the mean tech idiosyncratic has nary thought what you're talking about. These are wholly irrelevant people, but I'm like, I consciousness similar you're conscionable saying we similar radical who are successful, and I'm like, yeah, I mean, don't we each privation to prosecute radical who tin get worldly done? I'm a small confused—

Leah Feiger: Are you a self-starter, Zoë?

Zoë Schiffer: Right.

Leah Feiger: That's what this is. Ugh, God.

Brian Barrett: I besides privation to accidental this is not the archetypal clip Silicon Valley has been captured by the thought of dividing radical into categories. Who tin hide the frenzy of aboriginal 2022 erstwhile everyone was either a wordcel oregon a signifier rotator? Does anyone retrieve this? Am I the lone one?

Zoë Schiffer: I benignant of consciousness similar you're making this up to trial if I'm going to hold with. Like I person genuinely nary thought what you're talking about.

Brian Barrett: That's precisely what a wordcel would say.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh no, I'm mimetic.

Brian Barrett: Sorry.

Zoë Schiffer: And a wordcel.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. Well, they're precise akin concepts, similar breaks things down successful a akin way. Wordcels are—and I'm not going to get this precisely right, it was a agelong clip ago—but arsenic the sanction suggests, radical who are much connection driven and speech done things, whereas signifier rotators, wow. They are action-oriented, tin probably—

Zoë Schiffer: Where bash these words adjacent travel from?

Brian Barrett: I don't know. I deliberation wordcel astir apt derogatory due to the fact that it possibly builds disconnected incel, but I americium not—I'm making that up arsenic I spell along. I don't retrieve wherever it came from exactly, but adjacent Sam Altman was tweeting astir wordcels and signifier rotators backmost successful the day.

Zoë Schiffer: Well, Sam Altman, arsenic this Harper's nonfiction suggests, is I deliberation a small chronically online. He has a full conception wherever determination was a Twitter troll oregon an X troll who's going aft people, benignant of making amusive of them, telling them to bargain him things. And Sam Altman benignant of makes the inclination spell mainstream by really buying this feline a gaming laptop and sending it to him. And past each these different celebrated tech radical consciousness similar they besides request to bargain this random feline things. It becomes benignant of similar a trend.

Leah Feiger: I hatred that this is simply a taste talking constituent close now. The mode that you disagreement radical becoming—it's conscionable similar 1 much way. One much way.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. Whenever radical consciousness truly passionately astir the Oxford comma successful their bio, they're like, I'm pro Oxford comma. Like what? Who cares?

Brian Barrett: Oh, truthful you're wrong.

Zoë Schiffer: No, no. I mean, I bash similar it, but I'm similar to marque your idiosyncratic marque aligned with the Oxford comma. OK. I don't know.

Brian Barrett: Wow.

Leah Feiger: She hates the Oxford comma. She's besides mimetic.

Brian Barrett: She's a wordcel.

Leah Feiger: And she's a—

Zoë Schiffer: Sorry guys.

Brian Barrett: She's a mimetic wordcel.

Leah Feiger: OK. I deliberation that we request to determination connected to different large spot of quality that happened this week. The State of the Union code delivered by President Trump connected Tuesday evening.

Donald Trump, archival audio: Members of Congress and my chap Americans, our federation is back—bigger, better, richer, and stronger than ever before.

Leah Feiger: It was the longest State of the Union code to date. It lasted astir 2 hours, and it was precisely what you would expect. Trump was boasting astir his show successful office. He doubled down connected immigration.He said the US's system was going swimmingly. Did not evidently speech astir his precise debased support numbers close now, but truly spent a batch of clip conscionable celebrating the Republican agenda. He brought successful members from the US hockey team, celebrating their victory. He talked astir migration and what an important happening this was going to beryllium going into the midterms. He truly went aft the Supreme Court and aft their determination to contradict him the tariffs helium truthful profoundly wants. It was, honestly, you guys, truthful boring. I was truthful bored. What were your reactions? Did you watch? Did you conscionable spot the quality that came retired the adjacent day? Tell maine what you're thinking.

Brian Barrett: I not lone watched, I made my kids watch.

Leah Feiger: Oh, that is unkind.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh, my God.

Brian Barrett: Yeah, astatine least, well, they watched the archetypal hr oregon so, which is simply a lot, and past we switched implicit to an aged occurrence of The Muppet Show arsenic a palate cleanser.

Leah Feiger: Nice.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. I deliberation they got much retired of The Muppet Show than they did retired of the State of the Union. Other than that, you mentioned helium was boosting Republican talking points. I was much struck by however venomous his comments were, vitriolic towards Democrats and anyone helium doesn't like. It was much assertive than I deliberation we've seen connected this signifier successful a agelong time. It's not astonishing and it's boring by now, but I deliberation done the eyes of a kid who has not watched Donald Trump arsenic overmuch arsenic we have, I deliberation they were beauteous shocked by it, that this was however our president acts.

Leah Feiger: And that's a 100 percent fair. When I accidental boring, I'm coming astatine this from, we're looking astatine what he's posting connected Truth Social connected a regular basis. This is, it's truthful overmuch much of the aforesaid that possibly the astir complimentary happening I tin accidental is that, portion parts of this were conscionable streaming connected and connected and vaguely nonsensical, helium precise overmuch stuck to his talking points that helium has been saying passim his term, passim the past month. Nothing was shocking. He didn't bring up excessively galore pieces of nonstop authorities helium was going to ... but did we really deliberation helium was going to bash that? I'm much funny successful immoderate of the forward-looking things helium promised. Again, of which determination were precise few, but a mates things that we tin look at: for one, helium said that JD Vance—Vice President JD Vance—was going to beryllium taking the pb connected fraud investigations. Was that caller to you guys? How did you consciousness astir that one?

Zoë Schiffer: This is evidently not my area, but my contiguous absorption was like, that's the occupation you springiness idiosyncratic you hate. It conscionable feels similar ... americium I wrong? I'm conscionable like, that feels—

Brian Barrett: Hasn't the Trump medication besides fired, oregon not rehired, radical who resign? They had a clump of radical who were really liable for uncovering and prosecuting fraud who nary longer enactment there, right? So to say, "Oh, well, JD is going to bash it," is simply a benignant of hilarious backup plan. In practice, yeah, that's not going to spell anyplace different than a clump of posts connected X.

Leah Feiger: Oh, yeah. But each to accidental determination wasn't a ton of caller information. I didn't travel retired of this going like, "Ah, perfect. I cognize the time that we volition beryllium going to warfare with Iran," and truthful it was precise helium deed the talking points we thought helium was going to hit. And I think, if anything, astir apt showed, arsenic chaotic arsenic truthful galore antithetic parts of this medication appear, it's focused.

Zoë Schiffer: Can I ask, it feels a spot similar they're attempting a spot of a rebrand. I'm not definite if this is conscionable due to the fact that they had truthful overmuch occurrence being anti-establishment and present they're the establishment. I cognize this is good trodden ground, but it feels similar Nicki Minaj getting the Trump paper and appearing astatine the White House and each of that, we're seeing these attempts to say, "No, no, no. We're inactive cool. We're inactive fun," similar to rebrand MAGA a spot successful this moment.

Leah Feiger: The rebrand is not going well, if you're looking astatine truthful galore antithetic polling numbers, et cetera, astatine slightest successful this moment, but it feels similar they're pushing it successful immoderate antithetic ways. Brian, what bash you think?

Brian Barrett: I don't know. The constituent is taken, but rebrand to maine feels similar it suggests that these taste touchstones, the US men's hockey team, different spots, weren't already MAGA. You cognize what I mean?

Leah Feiger: So reinvigoration?

Brian Barrett: Maybe.

Leah Feiger: Maybe the connection isn't rebrand, but it feels similar they're talking astir things that aren't conscionable similar however overmuch Trump hates immigrants close now.

Brian Barrett: Yeah.

Leah Feiger: There was conscionable a agelong dispersed determination erstwhile they were not, similar MAGA was not talking astir thing that idiosyncratic who was not speechmaking the quality each azygous time would beryllium capable to subordinate to.

Brian Barrett: I deliberation that's fair. Yeah. I deliberation it's possibly much they are highlighting the pockets of taste relevance that they have. There is this benignant of broader effort of civilization seizure done the Ellison empire, done the acquisition of TikTok, done the imaginable acquisition of Warner Brothers by Paramount. So determination is simply a batch of, "We are the chill ones," which arsenic we each know, the coolest happening you tin bash is importune to everybody however chill you are. That's what got maine done precocious school.

Guys, earlier we spell to break, there's thing precise adjacent and beloved to my bosom that WIRED wrote astir this week. It's thing I emotion adjacent much than biathlon. It is undersea net cables.

Leah Feiger: I emotion erstwhile you speech astir this. I deliberation that the archetypal clip you brought this up to maine was astir 1 week into your tenure arsenic enforcement editor, and you're like, "Leah, bash you cognize what I love?" and it's undersea net cables.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. I was like, "Number one, undersea net cables. Number two, my children. Number 3 ..." that was benignant of the gist of it. That's however I ever present myself. I privation to instrumentality everybody backmost to December 14th, 1988. The apical movie successful theaters is Twins starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito.

Zoë Schiffer: Legitimately ne'er heard of it.

Leah Feiger: Wait, Zoë. What?

Brian Barrett: What? Anyway, Arnold is agentic and Danny DeVito's mimetic. The apical song—

Zoë Schiffer: Now I get it.

Brian Barrett: —the apical opus is “Look Away” by Chicago. Now that, I besides americium not—I don't retrieve that 1 astatine all. And the archetypal undersea fibre optic cablegram connecting the United States, UK and France went live. This was the time that the net went global, which is crazy—

Zoë Schiffer: That is crazy.

Brian Barrett: —that it was comparatively recent. The crushed we're penning astir it present is that that archetypal cable, which is called TAT-8, is being pulled up. It's retired of commission. It's old, it's decrepit, truthful I identify, and it's being pulled up and enactment retired to pasture due to the fact that the technology's gotten better. But successful this large diagnostic that we published, it is simply a look astatine however this changed the satellite basically, and however we instrumentality for granted—but the crushed I americium truthful into undersea cablegram stories is due to the fact that it's truthful casual to hide that the net is simply a carnal happening and that the attraction of those things is truly what makes each this connectivity happen. So yeah, TAT-8. Any different fond memories of TAT-8? Or, no. What did you guys deliberation speechmaking this feature?

Zoë Schiffer: Well, famously we were not live successful 1988.

Leah Feiger: Yeah. Sorry, Brian. You're older than us. Just a reminder.

Brian Barrett: Hurts.

Zoë Schiffer: But the portion of this communicative that I wanted to speech about, which felt similar a existent intersection of some of your interests was the story of the shark attacks.

Brian Barrett: Oh, yeah.

Leah Feiger: OK. So to backmost up a small bit, these cables, astatine the precise beginning, erstwhile they were enactment in, Brian would beryllium capable to speech astir this mode much due to the fact that he's benignant of a freak astir cables if you haven't realized already. These cables would sometimes person unexplained damage, and looking backmost connected it years later, engineers figured retired that this benignant of happens, that if you are putting cables underseas, determination volition beryllium wind, determination volition beryllium changes, things volition get moved around. Of course, determination volition beryllium damages, but that is not however they felt astatine the time. These engineers assumed that it was sharks, that sharks were biting their cables, that they were destroying the internet. The cables were reinforced with each these protective layers, each of these things, due to the fact that they were like, "Oh, my God, the sharks are rather virtually ending each of this for us." But this nonfiction goes into large item of however they figured retired it wasn't the sharks, and by reasoning that it was the sharks, it really helped marque each of this exertion that overmuch amended and stronger, but the sharks were innocent, you guys. The sharks were innocent.

Brian Barrett: Justice for sharks. If there's 1 happening this podcast is about, it is justness for sharks.

Leah Feiger: They're truthful wonderful. They didn't disrupt the cables, but it is specified an absorbing thing, due to the fact that evidently this piece, it gets into truthful overmuch of the carnal gathering of each of this and having to grapple with the earthy world, and changing currents and temperatures and what does that look like.

Zoë Schiffer: This is inactive however it runs, right? Satellites and wireless networks are there, they're relevant, but the existent carnal cables, this is inactive the backbone of the internet.

Brian Barrett: And they're inactive being deployed. I deliberation Google and Meta some person their ain elephantine undersea cablegram projects. They're inactive launching caller ones, faster connections, and they're besides precise political. I deliberation successful 2024 determination was a spate of severed undersea cables that radical person traced backmost to, allegedly, Russia severing ties to Finland, Estonia, arsenic this was astir the clip that the EU was conscionable gearing up to enactment Ukraine, and determination was a small spot of similar infrastructure mayhem going connected astatine the bottommost of the ocean. These are integral to each kinds of geopolitical—and again, that wasn't sharks, truthful it's different clip the sharks didn't bash it.

Coming up aft the break, we'll stock our WIRED/TIRED picks for the week. Stay with us.

Zoë Schiffer: It is clip for our WIRED/TIRED segment. Whatever is caller and chill is WIRED. Whatever is passé is TIRED. Are we ready?

Leah Feiger: So ready, truthful excited. Wow.

Zoë Schiffer: OK. Leah, you spell first.

Leah Feiger: So my WIRED is the amusement Survivor, which is airing Wednesday night. So excited. This is going to beryllium incredible. It is Season 50, truthful we person Survivor players of eons past that are coming backmost to vie for the cardinal dollars. I americium truthful excited. It's going to beryllium incredible. Zoë, my extremity successful the adjacent fewer months is conscionable to marque you ticker one, one, of the episodes. This is precise important to me.

Brian Barrett: If you were to marque Zoë ticker a humanities occurrence of Survivor successful isolation, what 1 hr of Survivor would you amusement her?

Leah Feiger: Can I accidental a season, oregon does it person to beryllium an episode?

Brian Barrett: I privation to spell with that, due to the fact that I don't deliberation you're going to get her for a full season.

Leah Feiger: So I'm going to bash the second-to-last occurrence of the Micronesia play of Survivor. Absolutely unthinkable season, known for the Black Widow Brigade. Zoë, I really deliberation you would truly similar it. Well, anyway, that is my WIRED. My TIRED—and I'm benignant of devastated to accidental this—is Love Is Blind, which is ... I cognize that my taxable was world shows this week. Look, I person a batch of I wouldn't accidental emotion for Love Is Blind, but I person a batch of involvement successful Love Is Blind. I americium an avid Love Is Blind watcher. I deliberation it is simply a ace absorbing conception and a precise weird show, and produces a batch of precise weird people. But determination is simply a fantabulous WIRED nonfiction coming retired astir however MAGA it's gotten, and that those are the radical that are going connected the amusement close now, and the conversations that are happening betwixt these couples who met down a partition and are disconnected to get joined respective weeks aft knowing each other, the conversations are rather sad. They're making maine sad. There's a batch of assemblage shaming and it's conscionable very—it's weird. So this season, it's not doing it for me, which that's OK due to the fact that Survivor is present to assistance maine retired of the doldrums. That is my WIRED and TIRED. I basal by it. I curse that I work books and worldly too. I bash not privation this to beryllium my lone marque connected this show.

Zoë Schiffer: Certainly not. Brian, resistance america out. I request to get connected firmer ground.

Brian Barrett: OK. Well, I'm going to spell TIRED. Samsung conscionable announced immoderate caller phones. Those aren't TIRED, but TIRED is AI overload successful phones. There's excessively much. So astatine this point, the caller Samsung Galaxy S26 smartphones—similar to Google's conversational photograph editor—they person a photograph assistance happening that lets you usage earthy language, truthful you tin conscionable benignant in. If you person a photograph that you took, you tin accidental like, "Hey, springiness my canine a enactment hat," and past determination volition beryllium a enactment chapeau connected the dog. What's the constituent of taking photos anymore? Why not conscionable punctual thing alternatively from scratch, oregon conscionable spell interaction immoderate grass? I americium funny about—they've got agents built into the phone, truthful you tin usage the phone. You tin conscionable say, "Hey, bid maine a pizza," and the telephone volition conscionable bash that for you. We'll spot if it works. I don't know. It seems similar it mightiness spell disconnected the rails. Anyway, excessively overmuch excessively soon for me. That's my TIRED. I didn't program a WIRED. I was truthful caught up connected the phone, but due to the fact that it came up earlier, I'll accidental the caller Muppet Show occurrence with Sabrina Carpenter is truly rather good, and I anticipation that it got a bully capable effect that Disney makes much of them.

Zoë Schiffer: Further proving that I'm hardly connected the internet, but I truly similar this. OK, my TIRED is—this is what I wrote, "Calling yourself a bestselling author." I conscionable don't cognize what it means anymore erstwhile idiosyncratic talks astir this, but I did prime up my archetypal Agatha Christie publication the different day. I've ne'er work her. Flip to the backmost and her writer bio, you guys, says, "Agatha Christie is simply a bestselling author, blah, blah, blah, has been lone outsold by the Bible and Shakespeare," and I thought, "Boss move, lady."

Leah Feiger: Agatha's incredible. Wait, did you commencement reading? Which publication is it?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, I'm speechmaking And Then There Were None, which antecedently had a much violative rubric that I deliberation was changed.

Brian Barrett: Oh, it definite did.

Leah Feiger: Yeah, it truly did. I went done an Agatha Christie—

Brian Barrett: Don't Google it.

Leah Feiger: Yeah, nary need. I went done a truly aggravated Agatha Christie signifier successful precocious school. I truly deliberation that you're going to bask this.

Zoë Schiffer: I'm having fun.

Leah Feiger: Wait, what's your TIRED?

Zoë Schiffer: I said TIRED is calling yourself a bestselling author. WIRED is being Agatha Christie and being like, "I'm really the astir bestselling writer of each time." You get it?

Brian Barrett: I get it.

Zoë Schiffer: It wasn't great.

Leah Feiger: Yeah, I get it. I judge it. Yeah, that's fine.

Brian Barrett: It was—you cognize what? It was mimetic.

Leah Feiger: It was truthful mimetic. My God. That is our amusement for today. We'll nexus to each the stories we spoke astir successful the amusement notes. If you person immoderate comments, you tin find the occurrence transcripts astatine WIRED.com to discuss. Uncanny Valley is produced by Kaleidoscope Content. Adriana Tapia produced this episode. It was mixed by Amar Lal astatine Macro Sound. It was fact-checked by Matt Giles. Jake Lummus is our New York workplace engineer. Kate Osborn is our enforcement producer, and Katie Drummond is WIRED's Global Editorial Director.